G: Okay.

G: Releasing going.

D:  To one, welcome to the podcast breakdown i'm donovan Johnson, and my co host is.

G: Gregory Coleman.

D:  And what we aim to do is break down.

D:  How to develop a podcast and we started from scratch and we have no clue what we were doing but we've learned over the time and we're going to learn this time talk about some of the differences between.

D:  broadcast radio, which I was in for like 30 years and what we're learning now from podcasting.

G: So I think there's a lot we can learn and Rico has tons and tons and tons of experience in this, and I think for people podcasting.

G: You know nollywood radio has done, because you know that's like the LG of this format let's say oh gee of audio audio formats and I think there's there's a lot that we can learn from what people spent decades doing a radio that's now translating over to podcast.

D:  And some of the things do translate, but the main differences and some of the things we talked about radio is generally live, you know you normally tuning radio during the time morning morning drive midday afternoon drive.

D:  At night and then overnight if you're up and working or if you just can't sleep, you know vacations whatever, but for the most time most part they're the primary is the morning.

D:  commute time the morning drive is we're getting up getting them ready to go to school, when work.

D:  And then evening on the drive home and that's why they call them drive time, those are the highest paid, but those are the times that if you miss that you have to hear about it from somebody listen but.

D:  Now they're even podcasts and what am I talking about their even podcasts and now radio stations and morning drive afternoon, they have such a huge following and people missed out on it so now what they do is they have a podcast and then go back and hear what what happened today earlier.

D:  And also early in the day, so.

G: Every day, they take the morning driver that either, and they put it on as a podcast instead.

D:  Well, I mean they're doing that now what they do is they have you know this podcast is really like pre recorded, but what they do now is you know they can have some of the guests to stick around and.

D:  It has been more time talking to them, because everything is segmented and you know you want to keep in radio your your you know your main thing is to keep an audit audience listening.

D:  From the first 15 minutes into that at least another you know you got 15 minutes you're not going to be counted as.

D:  Past 15 minutes like you go 16 minutes now they say Okay, they got you for almost like the first 15 minutes and going into the second 15.

D:  But they call a quarter hours and that's where your ratings are really based on I can't how long can you keep the listener spin time listening, this time spent listening and.

D:  Those are the things that radios like Okay, they start to commercials normally it's like after they've had two and 15 minutes because.

D:  there's a thing called broadcast burnout and people change channels, when the commercials come so they don't want all the commercials to be on at the same time, so.

D:  They schedule what they want, and they always tease when we come back and that's another word tease is like you're kind of like showing your hand what's coming up.

G: here.

D:  So what sales say is when we come back we're gonna be talking to Greg Coleman he's going to tell us all the cybersecurity.

G: We need to talk to you know.

D:  Some whatever and then they're going to go into commercial break and then they're gonna come out, but at least people know if they're going to go away for the commercials make sure to come back for whatever snacks or if they're going to give away tickets.

D:  Or if they're going to give away, you know, like like $1,000 and pay your electric bill.

D:  But they always have things to try and stretch you from the, the first time you start listening through the quarter hour and then, if they can get you into the next quarter hour.

D:  But most most commutes are around I guess 30 minutes or less or you know, on the average.

G: And I think we've.

D:  Only got two during that time yeah.

G: I think we were talking about this later in a different episode, but they do dynamic insertion of ads that are in the podcast and I think, maybe we could maybe some podcasts are going to start doing that, like.

G: Oh, when we come back from the break and then they can put a mark in.

G: So, so what dynamic insertion is when when you're making a podcast and someone says, you know, can you please promote this in your in your podcast right.

G: You get that one added stays there forever, you know 10 years later, someone listens to your podcast they're going to hear that at that same ad what some podcasting companies are doing they're doing dynamic insertion.

G: So you know you know it's like okay this month we're selling this this monster selling this like.

G: Someone listens to your back catalogue they listen to, like all your old episodes.

G: They can get new ads and they can they can directly insert them I think podcasts are different, because a lot of times the the.

G: The ads are announced here it's the same person is I always like to talk about our sponsor and then they go into it, but you know radio ads a lot of a pre recorded right.

D:  Right, but then they have a new thing now.

D:  Because, especially in the morning drive and afternoon drive.

D:  These people so have so many millions of listeners and advertise to see if they have a high rating like that they want like say the announcer like this just you Steve Harvey or rickey SMILEY or.

D:  somebody like.

D:  what's his name.

D:  Anyway, well, they would say, well, because they are so popular and it's not a can't commercial they would give them a liner or give them, you know not recorded but they're going to do it live they're going to insert it before they go into the commercials and so like say if we have a.

D:  we're going to be talking about microphones then they would say if you're at best buy.

D:  Best buy a nice parchments, but if you have a best buy and you know you don't know what microphone again talk to Jeanne he's especially some microphones and have a special.

D:  By by the microphone and get headphones half off, so you know, and they will be reading that and it's specifically for that.

D:  and tell them rickey SMILEY sent you or you know, whoever that's on the morning show, and they would give them that, and it would cost more than the Ad.

D:  But the ads like say if it's Coca Cola, and then you got you know you have like American airlines or, if you have.

D:  home depot those are already pre recorded and that's not normally the anybody that you know, on the station is just those ecommerce we're going to run on all the different stations.

D:  So when they give you something to read in this rickey SMILEY they're gonna be like oh okay he's sponsoring they're not sponsored but.

D:  he's the one who's telling me that that's the place to go for special day going only during this week so.

D:  they're gonna like that ricky or whoever's the morning show host is reading it and it's not a can commercial that everybody here on all the stations, even if they said the same thing, like say and coming this weekend you buy a microphone you get a headphones off at half price that's.

D:  What i'm saying, because it's already pre recorded it's gonna be doing all the other stations are going to run through the day, but if I was to read it as alive host.

D:  They have to pay me more but guess what the listening audience is going to pay more attention because they're tuning into the personality their personality.

G: and

D:  That person is done endorsed something even though they're being paid to do it it's like okay all right they've said Oh, let me hit on down every four weeks out.

D:  I want to get that I want to get me a microphone i'm going to be looking at starting a podcast and i'm going to headphones half off.

G: yeah.

D:  So they have that that that didn't happen at one time, you know it was, like all the commercials are already done it normally done by somebody in production.

D:  And if you just happen to be there you're reading the commercial and they're going to editing they're going to put all the music and sound and stuff like that, but some of them come from.

D:  Madison avenue is with a colored some already cut for every station and it's the same person that's a voiceover artist that's a announcing whatever that home depot.

G: Well, I think i've heard this before it's like personalized ads for like the pretty like this in milwaukee baldwin the lot of the same ad for Chicago.

G: And all that stuff but you know that kind of ad where are the.

G: announcers speaks and it tells you, but those are mainly to kind of add to that i've seen on podcasts I really haven't seen you in the pre recorded ones there's a couple that i've seen do that what what's that kind of add call does it have a name or.

D:  What is that.

D:  The person on the personalized.

D:  endorsement or.

yeah.

D:  Commercial.

D:  Is this personality to personalize and it's for normally the drive time just where they would do.

D:  But if you're properly, even if you on a weekend mix show you know if you're going to be able to if people have a following they would like to you know get you to say.

D:  Okay it's it's gonna it's going to read you know it's going to resonate with your listening audience if they like you enough they're going to sell it I heard that.

G: Yes, lovely.

D:  Tell him Greg tell them Greg Coleman century hey Greg sent me and they can chart they know that their turnaround is based on.

G: That extra month.

D:  And money and they got to personalize that.

D:  that's that's The thing that podcasts by casters are doing that and cross promoting each other, like another State another podcaster who is like say my podcast is really big they might ask me to you know pay me.

D:  To talk about their podcast.

D:  And and it's sort of like.

D:  Not a commercial but cross promotion and that's that helps them because there's not really many people that are advertising.

D:  Because regulations are different, you know so it's not for the regulations for radio you got FCC you got you know security all kind of national things and local and advertisers and.

D:  You don't want to bump commercial, but if it's a national.

D:  Commercial you're going to get that one on and they can always make up a run of schedule, which means they can automatically like say, well, the morning show we need to add that.

D:  But in the afternoon that's that a like say a local advertiser might have flowers and roses on sale and blow by so they are bump that for national commercial and then they can make up they might have to say, well let's give you two commercials for that price of that one so.

D:  has a lot to do with the traffic department.

G: You touched on regulation right, I remember hearing about something called paella in the old days and there's like.

G: The FCC but yeah.

G: But for podcast you know there's there's no there's no regulation for it.

G: And I one thing that's.

G: that's sort of crazy as because I, you know get back to the technology each podcast hosts hosts their own content right.

G: That there isn't one central place this this boy came up with with Joe rogan because people wanted him taken you know off the Internet.

G: And Google basically says like look we don't host any of his files we don't we're not doing any of that we're just pointing you to so when it's in the apple directory or the Google directory spotify.

G: they're they're not really doing anything it's like you can't really say we want to go to Google take this guy off, you know what because files are still there.

G: Right there's still they're not going to look.

D:  up a word on a dictionary it's going to be.

D:  The dictionary you can't take it out, I don't like him.

D:  he's what the word is.

G: You can't take it out, I mean, I know, some people are probably not happy about that, but that's the way it's disturbing, you know if someone does something on YouTube.

G: Then people say hey you know you need to kick this guy off YouTube right, but you can't kick people off of podcast because it's just an rss file it's just.

G: A simple file sitting on the Internet, and you kick someone off, you know immediately, they can say oh go here there's a whole nother podcast directory but um you know, since we don't have like FCC regulations.

G: Maybe we should have FCC regulations, but I can't really see how it works.

G: but can you talk more about regulation difference between podcasts and radio stations.

D:  yeah podcast is it's like a free fall, so certain language and certain things you can infer.

D:  On broadcast radio and those regulations are not consistent, you know, like foul language or you know things that are kind of off color something you wouldn't say to your grandmother they don't want anything that you wouldn't be able to say to your grandmother on radio and.

D:  morning shows, I remember Howard stern used to get in trouble all the time and certain things that people are doing now, but that's when.

D:  It was really strict and you mentioned pay or pay all those when you're getting paid and you're endorsing something, but you don't talk about that you were paid to do it and it's not that's not legal in or not lawful it might be legal but not law well no it's lawful but not legal.

D:  So uh like say if somebody told me, I give you $1,000 to play this new artists.

D:  You know what I can get around in radio, I found out the rules were if I say they pay me know a lot of thousand they pay me $10,000 to play this record and we have lyrics time so i'm going to play it and it's the Newark upcoming song from blah blah blah.

D:  Well i'm i'm off the hook, because I announced that I was being paid it's not a shady deal and it's not a commercial.

D:  But i'm playing it, and now I can get in trouble if the music director didn't give me that opportunity, but the whole thing is you got your money.

D:  And they got their play, but it's not hidden it's not well i'm going to send you a check in the mail or meet me at starbucks and i'll give you the cash from say no that's payola.

G: Well, no.

D:  So, you know as long as you're up front, you know, but you can't even in broadcasting you can't even have a relative that works at a.

D:  I mean you have to disclose like say if somebody works at a like a record company or somebody writes music or produces and stuff like that you have to declare all that so if anything comes out, you can be fined and you can lose your job so.

D:  and royalties and things like that have to be paid, and so trademarks and all those things that you mentioned So these are the things that are different from box, you know so.

G: So basically we don't have any regulation.

G: You can just.

D:  so far.

G: so far.

D:  The gop always trying to get it to get their hands on.

G: The.

D:  podcast there's maybe as a podcast now you.

G: Know there's millions I think there's the you know people are listening to podcasts more and more actually shrinking as I listened to, I want you to bless him was.

G: All first like I don't have any time.

G: And you know that time I was spinning on YouTube and i'm actually spending on on on spotify instead.

G: And it's that's been a pretty big difference for me, and I think there's probably a lot of people like that that that yeah you like listening to like what you want to listen to you when they listen to your you know lock picking history podcast or whatever i'm sure.

i'm sure.

G: i'm sure there's there's got to be a podcast for pretty much anything you can think of, and you, you you don't want to take out of your time because you know we're getting busier and busier every day.

G: And you know youtube's nice but.

D:  i'm going to watch it.

G: You have to watch.

G: to watch yeah gotta watch tick tock every you know every 15 seconds, or whatever.

You know.

D:  podcast you can come to later wherever you stopped off you go back to it it's right where you left off.

G: It is.

G: I have too many podcasts a I want to listen to, I mean, some of them like you were talking about the the morning drive, which I think it's like is that, like two hours or three hours long or something.

D:  yeah three hours, sometimes for.

G: yeah you know city, the long format podcast like Joe rogan you know um.

G: I like listening to them, because they get to go in depth, but you know, sometimes I don't have three hours, and I think.

G: You know that's that's one thing with a podcast you can have a shorter show like ours are like the one or two or three hour shows, but um you know I can't listen to three hours of audio a day or six hours a day.

G: But I can listen to a bunch of shorter shows.

D:  Right, and you know what I do, I said, you know where you can schedule them that when they have a new episode it'll flash across my iPhone it.

D:  And then I can say Okay, say, but there are set an alarm and I can go back to when I have the time but i'm radio you normally you didn't catch it you lost it right you hear about it, you know.

D:  And, and you know it's like you can you can be doing other stuff you know if you have headphones on hey you know I can be varnishing the floor kind of stuff I can be building a birdhouse you know, like hey you know you don't have to watch.

G: It reminds me of like talk radio like back in the day is that was you know people used to put just they just put talk radio on in the background yeah um who those like who is really big and talk radio like rush limbaugh or remember his name.

D:  Right.

G: Who else was big and talk radio in.

D:  don imus was fired but used to be sports talk and there's so many other.

D:  Things I avoided in my career, I did not really want to do, I was really into music and I was like you say you should you should be on a talk show.

D:  interview interview if they come on my show or, if I can squeeze it in, but I just felt like I miss music, so I you know who's he should have you should have a talk show in here now.

D:  starting off doing podcasting so it's I I didn't realize, you know I just miss music, I was like i'm not i'm not gonna apply for that.

D:  Somebody else's land you'd be good.

D:  But I i'm feeling this now.

D:  like it.

But.

D:  It has a lot to do with you, and some of the subjects and stuff that.

D:  You know, we talked about in the sidebar stuff you know but we're trying to teach people what it's like to do a podcast without knowing what you're doing.

D:  And the fun is I think we're learning and I don't know what our listening audience is thinking, but I think they can learn some things and things that we learned because we didn't know.

D:  there's no there's no barrier, because you know before like we said in the beginning, we wanted to be you know, on top of our game and know everything, and if this happens, we.

D:  You know you just say okay it's like going comedy you're going to get on stage you got three minutes make them laugh.

G: yeah.

D:  You know and that's that's similar to podcast you have to do what you gotta do you can put it off, but a year later, you could have been doing a year's worth of podcasts.

G: And you know I think I think one thing is since podcast is such an open format, you could do you could interview musicians.

G: yeah you can add your own hybrid to give them music and talk show and that's the sort of the great thing about podcasting.

G: And unfortunately I think we're running a little bit long and we and we got off track, but it was a great conversation well that's The great thing about it.

G: And maybe we could.

D:  Maybe and come back to Part two

G: yeah we should you know we're gonna make this a part two, this is going to be a two parter so we can talk about you know what's the tag what's a bed what's a bumper all those terms.

G: I have no idea what they are, but I i'd really love to learn like you know how to use I think he's cute but you know that's going to be in Part two

D:  And that would be fun now you know cuz somebody things you hear those terms, and you don't know and they really kind of simple, just like I didn't know what an rss was use you tell me but.

D:  that'll be something we can do on the next episode.

D:  Thank you for listening to us wherever you get your podcasts We thank you for spending time with us and we're going to learn, by doing and.

D:  Next episode we're going to do, part two of this episode.

G: Thanks.

G: Okay, yes.

G: Okay.

G: yeah That was a good conversation we went we went long, though.

G: yeah.

D:  Well, I like your interjection there's some things that you brought out that.